NASA Marshall Safety Breakfast Game Distracting From Saftey

An Article in the Huntsville Times  titled The breakfast club NASA senior managers never talk about safety in same restaurant twice By Rebbecca Sallee.

A group of managers at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center has more than one item on its plate when it meets each month to talk about safety over breakfast.

Roger Herdy, a site manager for Allied Aerospace in Marshall's Engineering Science and Technical Services group, said about 20 senior managers take part in the monthly meetings, which started in 1990.

Managers take turns leading a safety briefing and choosing the breakfast site. "The rules are that you cannot go back to the same place," Herdy said. "Over the years, it's been more and more difficult to find a new restaurant. That's part of the game."

I find this very disturbing from the point of view of one who has studied the Psychology of Group Dynamics.  This breakfast game ignores the importance of space when dealing with group dynamics, the seriousness of the issue they are dealing with as well as the fact that they are wasting a lot of public employees time playing this game.

The functioning of a group is highly dependent on the space they meet in. There are of course obvious things like lay out, lighting and  temperature but there are other factors as well. Meeting in the same space is important for group therapy because it automatically puts participants in the proper frame of mind and means they don't have to think about the room. While a safety group gathers for a different purpose, constantly changing meeting space undercuts the purpose of the meeting and the functioning of the group. I am sure many times they have met in rooms not really conducive to a meeting because of the rules of the game.

The playful attitude is also disturbing to me when dealing with the subject of safety.  Written later in the article,

this month with Lon Miller's discussion of "safety as an attitude," Herdy said. "It is a very serious thing when you are in the manned spaceflight business that things are safe. There can be spills, accidents, things of that nature. We want to be sure everybody goes home."

The breakfast club does not seem to have the safety attitude.

Finally, how much time an effort goes in to finding a new restaurant, telling everyone when and where the meeting will be  and having 20 people find this month's location. That is not even considering how much extra time is spent on the road because the distance required drive to a new spot because the group has already been to all the nearby ones.  Consider this meeting has been going on every month for 15 years. That means they have meet in 180 different places. I who live close to 10 restaurants would be hard pressed to play this type of game for long.

It is time this group get serious and remember the importance of safety and the fact they are all either directly or indirectly being paid by the government and stop wasting tax payer dollars on a silly game.

Comments

[Keith Cowing]

Based on your pop psych babble you have clearly never worked anywhere close to a real space program - nor have you ever actually attended the meetings described in this article - or any NASA safety meetings - anywhere. These serious shortcomings not withstanding you still feel competent to pontificate about the effectiveness of these events - and include references to such silly things such as "room temperature".

That's the problem with you space policy wonks: you're all theory - with zero real world experience - and rarely do any of you employ common sense when you rant.

You are also blatantly unaware of the many fine eating establishments in Huntsville.

[Karen Cramer Shea]

I studied psychology in one of the best programs in the region which specialize in training counselors, so I am not talking pop psych. I am looking at this meeting from the point of view of one trained in group dynamics. While my training and experience dealt with group therapy, a safety meeting isn't that different in terms of group dynamics.

You think room temperature is silly; it isn't to those wanting to have an effective meeting. Too hot and everyone is falling asleep and uncomfortable, too cold and everyone is shivering and uncomfortable while these can be used to speed difficult negotiations normally for effective meetings you want people comfortable.

I do have real world experience in this area and I know a change in space can be very distracting for the effectiveness of a meeting. Especially, if the meeting is held in a bowling alley as the safety meeting once was.

I live in what realtors call Upper Georgetown and there are many fine eating establishments within walking distance but I am sure I would have difficulty finding a new restaurants to have breakfast at everyday after a couple of months.

[Keith Cowing]

You have never sat in a single, real, NASA technical meeting nor have you participated in such a technical discussion. Nor, I would venture, would understand any of what was discussed if you actually did sit in.

Yet you think you know enough about such meetings - ones you did not attend or could not understand - such that you publicly criticize them!

Typical policy wonk. Sadly there are people who fall for 'expertise' such as yours.

[Karen Cramer Shea]

Actually, I believe I have participated in several NASA technical discussions. I do understand what they are talking about, sometimes I know more about the subject than the speaker does.

But what you fail to understand is at a fundamental level a meeting is a meeting and there are known factors that add to the effectiveness of the meeting and some that detract from that effectiveness. I don't have to attend a meeting or know anything about the topic to know a constant change in location is distracting.

[Keith Cowing]

You obviously studied under John Logsdon.

[Karen Cramer Shea]

Logsdon never mentions group dynamics.

My Theory and Practice of Group Dynamics profession did. She talked about how disruptive it was to a group therapy group to move from its regular room and I saw her point when the class was moved out of its regular space.

For an important regular meeting to intentionally never meet at the same place twice, does nothing but create chaos and distraction.

How many man hours are spent for each meeting finding a new location, making sure all members know what the new location is, all members finding the new location, finding a parking space at a strange location, reading the menu of a strange new restaurant, dealing with servers unfamiliar with the group and its needs, discussing the new place with other members, finding the restrooms at the new location, dealing with less than optimum situations for a meeting (noise, seating arrangements, interference from others at restaurant).

This certainly equals hours each month that we the tax payers are paying for which are not being used to talk about shuttle safety. All, so these guys can play their game. Well, if they want to play games they should do it on their own time. The future US human space flight is in their hands, along with the lives of the shuttle crew and thousands of jobs which will be eliminated if another shuttle is lost, including theirs. They should take this responsibility seriously. Shuttle safety is not a game.

[Keith Cowing]

This is hilarious. You actually believe that you know how NASA works!

[Karen Cramer Shea]

No, I don't believe NASA works. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted, 17 dead and 30 years going nowhere show that NASA doesn't work. The monthly safety briefing described in the article shows us part of why it doesn't.

Now, if you think that the monthly safety briefing has nothing to do with actual shuttle safety then why are we paying these 20 people to go.

[Keith Cowing]

"Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted"

Wasted on what?

[Keith Cowing]

I must say, however, that we do share some similar taste in music/video...

If you go to http://www.youthofbritain.com/chillout/ you will see a Joel Veitch (rathergood.com) video - one of my all time favorites - that accurately highlights the exploits of one of our cats ...

[Karen Cramer Shea]

Wasted on Sky Lab, the space station and the shuttle.

I like the sentiment of the Joel and Alex Veitch song (see the FUN links).